“Trump has certainly been good for business, and Brexit has been as well. There’s been a lot of interest since the vote took place,” said Rob Williams, publisher of The Vermont Independent, a news website that he describes as “devoted to exploring Vermont Independence, broadly defined.” The 2nd Vermont Republic secession movement took off after George W. Bush won the White House, Williams explains, though he concedes that President Obama’s election “sucked the oxygen out of the room for a bit.” He hopes the prospect of a Trump presidency will convince people to give the idea a second look. “Rational people are scared of Trump and what he represents,” Williams said. “His racism, his intolerance, his lack of vision, his wall building.”That doesn’t mean secession will actually happen in the U.S. “There’s zero chance of any state seceding from the union,” said Douglas Brinkley, a history professor at Rice University. “There are always going to be people who champion states’ rights over the federal government. Then there are going to be people who take it extremely far, and start denouncing Uncle Sam, and imagining that Alaska is its own nation or that Texas will break from the Union. Since the beginning of American history that’s held true. But it’s not going anywhere. It’s just noise.”

Long odds won’t be enough to discourage true believers—especially in the midst of a presidential election that has defied expectation. “People are looking at the circus that is the presidential election and realizing that it’s just a symptom of a much larger issue,” Miller of the Texas Nationalist Movement said. “What we have here is a backlash … against the political class and the status quo.” Marinelli of Yes California says that people tend to react in a few predictable ways when he brings up secession. “There are people who are blindly patriotic who don’t want to even consider it—we like to say they’re wearing a Star-Spangled blindfold,” he said. “There are people who love the idea. Then there are people who say, ‘Well, if Trump gets elected, you may have a point.’”

As much of a fringe idea as secession may be, to dismiss separatist movements as a complete anomaly would be to miss the point. Support for secession is ultimately an extreme version of a viewpoint that many Americans share: dissatisfaction with the way things work in Washington, coupled with a convictionthat local governments know best. Those beliefs won’t dissipate anytime soon, and neither will expressions of populist anger, particularly in the midst of a contentious presidential election.